questions of fandom etiquette

[badbastion]

Under the cut is a poll on a few parts on fandom etiquette, regarding fandom fest art and comments. Also a poll because I'm wondering why the comment section has not been as robust as it used to be.



Feel free to click as many boxes as you want! Comments are welcome.

Edit: Please ignore the first question. In the spirit of the rule "Do not post anywhere before your assigned posting date," I won't be livestreaming, because it would feel like trying to get around that rule. It honestly kind of slipped my mind, oops!

I know already that reversebang art is meant to be absolutely private until reveals are up.

[Poll #1983141][Poll #1983141]

Thanks for taking the time to answer!

Comments

[beelikej.livejournal.com]

Okay, so I ticked two boxes on that last question, which I think is screwing up the poll, sorry! Because really I don't know why, but yeah, I've noticed a decline in general in responses to art (and fic!) posts when I do the rounds at challenges. (While I truely have been getting lovely attention myself, I'm not complaining at all!) I think because there is more than LJ out there at the moment and also because people are spreading their fandom love over more shows these days, possibly.

First two answers are very personal: I just love (and hate) keeping the process and art secret while the challenge is running 'cause I feel that's the rules and I love rules. I personally feel obligated to thank people for checking out my artwork. Whatever other artists (you;) do with that is not up to me (even if I wish I could direct everyone to do as I do *grins*)

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

You know what? I didn't realize that them's the rules. I should read rules more carefully, lol. So I'll keep the art secret, then. I wish I could edit a poll instead of starting all over!

I'm kind of weird about my work... like, older art, I don't even really think about anymore. So I don't really think about replying, I guess? But fic, it's still my baby no matter how old it is, so I usually try to reply to all of it. I'm going to see what others have to say on it before I decide. I really love replying to comments! It's just that it feels weird to reply to one that someone left a year ago, lol.

Oh, and that's no problem, checking more than one thing. I realized after I made the poll that I should have put another choice indicating that other people have noticed it, without the "i don't know" tacked on the front.

[beelikej.livejournal.com]

Oh, you should reply to comments in whatever way you feel comfortable of course; it's your art, your journal. I just get such a thrill from comments, especially on old art, that I can't help but want to smish whomever was thoughtful enough to take the time to comment after all these months (years!). Same goes for responses to comments I leave, no matter how long it takes someone to answer, in my opinion it's never too late. I used to hesitate to leave feedback on old entries, but experiencing the joy of a notification of attention for my own old stuff, I decided to not hold back only because the fanwork I only just discovered was old.

And on the subject of rules; I agree with de_nugis; it's probably different for every challenge:)

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

I feel I'd do better answering in words.

I think for the livestreaming thing, though it might be a nuisance, you'd probably have to ask the mods of each challenge you were thinking of doing it for -- I'm not sure there's a universal norm.

I'm terrible at replying to comments, so I feel you on it. I'd say that people will almost never react negatively to getting a comment reply, no matter how delayed, but that you shouldn't feel guilty or be kept away from present or future interactions by the sense that you have to answer comments first if it feels weird or like a chore to you. Basically, do what you want. The one thing I would probably avoid is answering selectively, actually, because if someone does happen to notice that you came back and answered half your comments on a post but not the other half it might make them feel bad. Maybe if there's some super-helpful feedback that you want to respond to without answering comments en masse you might PM the person who left it?

It's pretty universally agreed that commenting has fallen across LJ fandom. Fewer people are active here, even those who are often look at art on Tumblr and read fic on AO3 and think of LJ as more social than fanwork oriented. And of course a lot of people have drifted away from particular fandoms, even if they are still around in general. For me personally it's a combination of doing a lot more of my art consumption on Tumblr and being pretty iffy about Sam/Dean in the wake of the s9 consent issues (even when fanworks are past or future or AU or not set at any particular time, I find it hard not to be affected by whatever my feelings about current canon are).

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

I didn't really think about the livestreaming thing before I posted; the rule about not posting before the assigned date kind of slipped my mind, and to me, LSing it would be the same thing. So I need to edit my post to reflect that.

As far as comments go, I'm kind of trying to gauge what people expect before I decide what to do. Hmmm. There are some sites where I don't answer comments on my art at all, but on LJ I do try to answer back.

That's kind of a relief that commenting has fallen everywhere, that it's not just me, though it's kind of sad, too. I guess it's fallen steadily, but I went so long between posting that it was really obvious to me when I did post. I also noticed that I didn't know most of the people in the sdotp minibang reveals post! Someone should create a friending meme or something, because either I don't pay attention to much, or there's some new blood I'm not familiar with yet.

I do understand being affected by your current canon feelings. I've got that going on in kind of a different way; I'm doing a rewatch, and I'm at the beginning of S3, so fic and art feels fresh and kind of hopeful to me. I almost ignored S9 except for the fun parts, because it just felt... wrong? to me. I don't know how I'm going to feel about S10, but I'm looking forward to it more now that I've started my rewatch than I was last month.

[de-nugis.livejournal.com]

Maybe if I decide to take a hiatus I'll do some rewatching during it. I've been thinking of rewatching seasons four and five, because I find I'm hazy on them, apart from a selection of crucial moments that come up a lot in meta. I have this bad habit of starting rewatches of things and then getting distracted, so there are now quite a number of shows where I remember the latest seasons reasonably well and I've seen the early seasons many times and the stuff in the middle is a bit blurry.

[quickreaver.livejournal.com]

I ticked a couple of boxes, but they really didn't cover everything I feel, so here's me, blabbering!

I agree with de_nugis: ask the particular mods if they're cool with it. Personally, I wouldn't be bugged by a Livestream, because relatively few folks attend and it's not a surprise gift exchange. Then you can just sit on the art until master-posting. But that's just me. Ask first.

Re. responding to older comments, I can get stupid busy and not get around to all the comments. I wish I could, but no. I do try, though! Most of the time, I manage it, but not always. So I'd say, in your case, do a good skim and answer those that posed a question or you wish to expound upon. As a commenter, I don't always expect a reply. But again, de_nugis made a really good point about perhaps responding in a sort of 'group post', so that no one feels slighted. So maybe do that! In addition to covering questions, that'll get people peeking at the art again. I like that idea, actually!

In general, SPN LJ fandom activity is down on a daily basis. Some folks have wandered off to other platforms, some to other fandoms...it's just the evolution of the show and a fandom. LJ is still best for events, though, and I can tell you that sign-ups for both spn_summergen and spn_reversebang have not seriously dropped! They actually pull quite a few participants from other platforms. Tumblr is great for cruising art, but can be hateful and immature at the drop of a hat. I've had to unfollow a few BNF over there because of nastiness. A03 is fantastic for reading, but the kudos system means that sometimes people will just leave a kudo instead of an actual comment. I do try to comment when I can, regardless of where I read the fic.

So I think fandom is morphing, in general. It's not YOU, to be sure. It's just the natural evolution of a thing.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

I think as far as livestreaming goes, I'm leaning toward just keeping it private until posts go up. But if I feel a burning desire to livestream, I'll check with the mods :)

Hmm, that's an interesting idea, the group post. I'll consider that.

I think that the thing with the comments was, I made an art post in February, posted a sketch for another fandom in June, and wasn't back to posting SPN art until August. So that's a long time for people to trickle off to other platforms and other fandoms, and the difference in number of comments was really pronounced, instead of a slow decrease. So I was feeling a little bit insecure, I guess, lol.

I do love tumblr for art, and I post just about all my art there and participate socially a little bit, but tumblr's just not the place for me. Kind of the same with AO3 - I keep meaning to archive my fics there, but LJ will always feel like home, I guess.

Thanks for answering!

[glovered.livejournal.com]

I've talked to some people who don't like answering old comments. I definitely love hearing back from artists/authors on old comments I've left, even if it's just a "Thanks!!" so I'd say answer them? But don't feel bad about not answering some. People understand if you're busy.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

It's more of what people want or expect, or even just like, than it is about what I want, really. I want to do the right thing, haha. It's sounding like people like having their comments replied to, even old ones, so that's probably the route I'll take. Maybe go over an entry every day or a couple a week to get any stray ones I missed, then just try to keep up with them as they show up in my inbox. Thanks!

[firesign10.livejournal.com]

I think that sounds cool - just do a few at a time (comments). I'm still answering comments from the Love Meme becuase I feel that people wrote nice things about me, I want to acknowledge them! :-D

[dolnmoon.livejournal.com]

With the first question... I don't think it mentions anything about it in the rules about the livestreaming but I would think that it would be courteous and withstanding to the community rules to not livestream the art while doing it for a challenge. Usually it is a secret between the artist, the author and betas until the big reveal. I know for a fact that I probably wouldn't enjoy having the art livestreamed to a fic I had yet to publicly publish.

As for your comments... LJ is dying a slow unceremonious death. tumblr has taken over fandom love and I hate it. Social media is really no place for fandom love. blogs are for fandom love. I maybe get one comment on my fics on lj but soar on AO3 with kudos... People don't want to express their love, they want to hit like or kudos and move on.. its sad, really.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've edited the post to say to nevermind the first question :) Even if it's not strictly stated that it's against the rules, and even though the author doesn't miind, it still goes against the spirit of the rules, so I'm not going to do it.

Yeah, as for the comments, I'm starting to understand that. I've seen it on other sites before, and when I hit the SPN fandom I thought LJ was still going strong. But I guess it is kind of dwindling slowly. Maybe there'll be an LJ renaissance, lol.

[firesign10.livejournal.com]

First of all, your art has not declined. I LOVE your art, and I'm excited every time you post a new piece!

There is someting to be said that you were gone for a while, and people may take a bit to realize, oh hey! Bad bastion is really back! That may still be trickling in.

I have tumblr for pretty, and I am now posting a story on it too, but for me, I get very little story response there. Here, I get some comments, and AO3 it's kudos. I enjoy a nice kudos, but I way prefer comments. I try not to get too paranoid about it.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

Thank you for that <3 I just feel like I'm still shaking the rust off, and I was wondering if it showed. I appreciate it! <3

yeah, I've noticed that that's happened on other sites when I've taken a hiatus. It was a younger demographic and I drrew a pairing that no one else did, and I think some of them actually felt betrayed, from the kinds of comments they left, lol. But I know that's not the case here, it was just a big difference from the last time I posted regularly (ending in February) and now, starting in August, posting semi-regularly.

I'm feeling reassured in this post and feeling less paranoid, lol. I kind of judge whether people liked something on the number of reblogs it gets on tumblr, and sometimes that's depressingly low when I post fics. I wonder if that's because they've already read them here, because I always post here first.

[firesign10.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you feel better :-) whatever it is, it ain't you!!!

Commenting and fics - I've finally come to the conclusion that it's all a crapshoot. I never know what to expect, and whatever I DO expect is usually not how it goes. I'm trying to simply focus on writing good stories and posting them, and I do enjoy being in a challange because it's extra hoop-la, but you Just. Never. Know. *sighs*

[stripytights.livejournal.com]

In response to the first one - whatever you feel comfortable with!

I like having comments replied to, especially on old things because then I generally go back and read/view them again and enjoy it all over again. That said, I don't generally notice if someone doesn't reply or think anything of it :) so I answered 'don't know' (helpful I know!)

Commenting as a whole all over lj is down, thanks to other platforms and also to people leaving for those platforms. Which I find sad because with all it's (many) faults, I love lj. I'm beginning a commenting challenge when I get my charger back in an effort to be the change and all that, and because my to-feedback pinboard is overflowing to an embarrassing extent.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

Haha, thanks! I've decided though that I won't livestream because, while it might not be explicitly stated that livestreaming isn't allowed, I still feel it goes against the spirit of the rules, so I'll let it be :)

I think I am going to reply to old comments. Take it a post at a time and catch up, because it really is nice for people to take the time out of their day to leave me a note saying they like what I've done. It doesn't matter if *I* feel like old art is laid to rest after 6 months or so, lol, and it would be cool if I gave people a reason t look at it again ;)

I'd take that challenge! I'm pretty bad myself at commenting on things, still trying to get back into the hang of it after disappearing for so long. I have a "fic - read" and "fic - review" bookmark folder that I need to go through, and it would be nice to leave some love on things I've enjoyed. Even if it is late, haha!

[dephigravity.livejournal.com]

I have been horrible at having anything to do with fandom lately, and unfortunately LJ is just not that active of a platform. So I wouldn't take the lesser amount of comments too seriously, because we are all having that issue. It has nothing to do with the quality of your work, trust me.

As for livestreaming, I don't personally consider that posting unless you leave an archive of the video. I would avoid doing it for Reverse Bangs and other anonymous fests since those are supposed to be anonymous art, though. As for other BB's, I think it would be courteous to ask your author, but not necessarily required. One of the main reasons why RBB tweaked and reiterated that rule is because during the spn_masquerade meme, someone reposted art onto tumblr before the artist was even able to claim it as their own or post to their own blog. That type of thing should be an obvious case of DON'T DO IT, but apparently artists and comms now have to spell out common sense to some people.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Lj activity has fallen off, and I'm really getting that through these comments. It's jus tthat there was such a big difference from when i was last posting in February and then when i start posting again in August, and it was really obvious instead of a gradual slowing down, so it sort of startled me! lol

Ah, I've decided against livestreaming, as that would go against the spirit of the rules, even if it's not explicitly stated in the rules. Even if it was ok in the rules, I'd still want to ask my author because as someone else pointed out, they wouldn't want to have others see artwork for a story they'd not yet posted. I think that makes sense :)

Oh man, that's dumb! Tumblr can be a dumb place, lol. People probably still won't care about that rule.

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

Hope you don't mind a stranger stopping by, but one of the comms I mod was mentioned in a comment, so I got a notification. I saw your post and found it very interesting, and also reassuring, because I too have noticed a significant drop in comments and wondered what I was doing wrong (or if it was because I also kind of disappeared for a while!), but I guess based on comments others have left on this post that it's that way across the board. What a shame, because imo lj is the best place for fandom love. Why do I always wind up getting involved in something at its tail end?!? :-#

Anyway, we still have pretty good participation over at my comm spn_bunker, and it's a good place to make new friends, so you might try that. I hope people give up on Tumblr and come back to lj, because it's so fun when it's hopping around here!!

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

It's totally fine! Feedback from any source is welcome :)

It is kind of reassuring to know that others experience the same thing, and it is sort of sad, too. I've been on LJ for almost ten years, though I've only been in SPN fandom for two or three of them. It's crazy how activity has dropped, and yeah, d3epressing, because LJ is my favorite place to post and read and leave feedback, etc. I mean, liking or reblogging/reposting things is all fine and good, but I think the comments are what really work for me here.

I noticed that that went up when I was lurking for a few months! I'll have to at least watch it, even if I don't participate. I like bunkerfic :)

[ex1led-nyer.livejournal.com]

If I don't comment on people's work it's not always because I don't like it. I like your work (so please continue) and I still like LJ, but sometimes either (a) I'm too lazy to comment, (b) someone else has already said what I'd say, and better, or (c) I can't think of anything more meaningful to say than "Wow!". In the case of fiction, work with an AO3 link that's longer than, say, 5k words, I often download to my old Kindle that doesn't have Internet access. I'll read something, usually in bed, and then not make the extra effort to go back to the work the next day and comment.

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

I do that with my kindle as well, and I really need to start remembering to go back and comment. I just don't know how important comments are on AO3? I really don't have the hang of that place yet.

I understand that, especially the part about someone else already saying what you'd say. But i will say, and this is the case with all artists and authors as far as I know, people love getting comments, even if it is a rehash of something someone else has said. So if that's your concern, don't be concerned, lol.

Thanks for commenting!

[ash48.livejournal.com]

Hi!

I've been pondering the lack of comments thing lately and most people have covered some really good reasons in this thread. Personally, I think the "like" button on tumblr (and even the "favourite" option on Twitter), has made us just that bit lazier. It's so easy to just reblog or "like" something on those platforms that when people see art on LJ, it just takes that little bit more thinking.

I think also (and man, I could be way off here) that when you first appeared in fandom you were doing something that no one else was really doing. It was SO different and refreshing (and porn!) that there was a huge amount of response and chatter etc. Of course it's NO LESS awesome or amazing (and porn!), it's just people are used to it now and might feel less of a new to respond. Maybe? I dunno. I wondered that about petite madam's work also. When she first splashed into the SPN fandom it went NUTS! I would bet that her works don't get nearly the comments it did when she first posted. Not because it isn't still amazing, it's just that people perhaps have less to say - or feel less compelled to say something as they are familiar with her work now. (not really expressing myself very well here. I think it's a mix of laziness and "It's great work, but I don't know what to say, so I'll say nothing"). Tumblr (and twitter and Facebook) has meant that the endless scroll is more the norm, rather than stopping by to say something.

It's similar with vids. Early on it was a new-ish medium and for SPN there wasn't a lot around (like, way back in 2005- 2007), so there was a lot more excitement around them. These days I feel that most people are just not that interested in them - unless they are doing something that's not been seen before. There also SO much more to look at on the internet these days. Fans time is divided with more fandom spaces - and I'd say LJ is one of the least popular (though, not for me. Still my fav hang out).

Aaaanway. It's an interesting topic. You can rest assured that it's not your work declining. It's still wonderful (and refreshing and pornilicious).

[blackrabbit42.livejournal.com]

Just briefly from me.... I've been going through heck lately and I can barely scan my flist feed, and I haven't been commenting at all. But I still love your beautiful filthy art, and I ALWAYS squee when I see it come up on my feed.

XOXOXO

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

If this is meant for me, thank you, I really appreciate it! Sorry you're going through heck, and I hope it lightens up on you soon. *hugs*

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

You know, on your second paragraph, maybe that's a small part of it? The reason i started drawing for SPN was because I couldn't find enough drawn porn, lol, and that's my specialty :D haha But maybe people *are* becoming accustomed to it, and they've already left glowing comments on other pieces that are similar, so they've just run out of things to say. That's okay :)

I do hate the endless scroll mindset, and I find myself doing it sometimes, lurking like I do on facebook, but expecially since I put this poll up I've been trying to reply to at least a few posts I see a day.

Yeah, LJ is still my fave hangout, too. I'm sad to see it dwindling, but I guess that's life.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment!

[badbastion.livejournal.com]

expecially lol